Trading running back Peyton Hillis was, in hindsight, a mistake. We know that now.
No matter how you look at it, the Broncos could use Peyton Hillis. The Browns’ running back has more rushing yards (644) and rushing touchdowns (7) than the entire Broncos team has (538 rushing yards, 5 rushing touchdowns) to this point in the season. His blue-collar, tougher-than-nails style is something the Broncos lack.
We also know now that the Broncos did not receive fair value in return. Shipping Hillis, a 2011 sixth-round draft pick and a 2012 conditional pick, to the Browns for quarterback Brady Quinn has turned out to be a bad trade. There are no two ways about it.
Yet, the after-the-fact criticism of Coach McDaniels for making the trade is at least a little disingenuous. It is always easy to come to a conclusion once we have time to see the outcome of a decision. There are, however, several key points that critics usually gloss over in their zeal to throw the spear at Coach McDaniels for trading Peyton Hillis.
1 – TYPICALLY A TEAM HAS TO OVERPAY FOR A QUARTERBACK. This is especially true with a young quarterback who was a former first round pick. That’s life in the NFL. Quaraterbacks are often a premium commodity, even if they are unproven. At the time of the trade, Brady Quinn had shown some flashes of good play with the Browns. Certainly he showed enough to merit Cleveland asking for a guy perceived to be a third-down running back and a couple of late round draft picks.
Given Hillis’ limited accomplishments and the fact he had yet to prove himself to be a legitimate first-string running back at the time of the trade, one could argue that the Broncos didn’t overpay to get Quinn. Even still, the prevailing opinion about Quinn was that at the very least he was an upgrade to the Broncos talent and depth at the quarterback position.
2 – AT LEAST THREE NFL HEAD COACHES FAILED TO RECOGNIZE HILLIS’ TALENT. Those three are Mike Shanahan, Josh McDaniels and Eric Mangini. In 2008, Hillis’ rookie season, he only got the opportunity to start when a litany of Broncos’ running backs went down with injuries. In other words, he got an opportunity to play extensively because a lot of other guys got hurt. And we’re not talking about star players. We’re talking about guys like Selvin Young, Michael Pittman, Tatum Bell and Ryan Torain all getting the opportunity to start before Hillis. Even Andre Hall, while not starting a game that year, was ahead of Hillis on the depth chart before Hall got hurt.
The bottom line is that Hillis was a last resort for Mike Shanahan. He had to give Hillis a chance to be the number one running back.
In addition, at the beginning of training camp this summer, Hillis was behind Jerome Harrison and Montario Hardesty on the Browns’ depth chart. It is pretty clear that Browns’ head coach Eric Mangini didn’t see Hillis as the top running back.
And, to further show what NFL coaches thought of Peyton Hillis, the Broncos selected him as the 20th player taken in the SEVENTH round of the NFL draft. Don’t tell me there was a concensus that this guy was going to be a great NFL running back. Please. Let’s be intellectually honest.
I give Hillis credit. He has shown that every NFL coach has had the wrong perception of him. He has proven people wrong. He is definitely capable of being the top running back on an NFL team and I am thrilled for him for his success this season.
3 – AS TALENTED AS HILLIS IS, I DON’T BELIEVE HE WOULD BE HAVING THE SAME SUCCESS THIS YEAR IF HE WERE WITH THE BRONCOS. Again, let’s be honest. The Broncos’ offensive line has been a mess. It is a group that has simply not played well. Maybe it’s because of injuries. Maybe it’s because of youth. Maybe it’s because of talent. Maybe it’s because of all those factors and more.
Football is one of the ultimate team games. If guys don’t do their jobs well, other guys have trouble doing their jobs well. Right now, the Browns’ offensive line is light years better than that of the Broncos. Hillis, while talented in his own right, benefits from running behind a really good line in Cleveland.
Could the Broncos use Peyton Hillis? Without a doubt. Would Hillis have the similar numbers if he were playing for the Broncos this year? I am highly doubtful of that. Buying into that logic lets the Broncos’ offensive line off the hook. Given what I’ve seen from the Broncos offensive front this year, I don’t believe Hillis is THAT good.
4 – WE DON’T REALLY KNOW WHY THE BRONCOS TRADED HILLIS. Josh McDaniels has never come out and talked in-depth about the topic. We know Coach felt he could upgrade the depth at quarterback, which we all know was something had to be done after last season.
But we don’t know if there were any behind-the-scenes issues going on. I’m not implying there were or were not. I have no idea. I’m just saying that we don’t know. It could have strictly been a football move. Or, there is the possibility that other factors could have influenced the decision.
Let me say it one more time just so the Coach McDaniels bashers know where I stand: It has turned out to be a bad trade. It has not worked out well for the Broncos at all. Would I have liked to see Coach McDaniels have given Hillis more of an opportunity to show what he could do? Yes, I would have liked that.
But it is time to get over it. NFL coaches make mistakes. Josh McDaniels made one in this instance.
It’s time to let it go and move on. Unfortunately, the Broncos have bigger issues to address as the second half of the season begins.
The second half of the season begins Sunday against the Chiefs. Feel free to post your thoughts about what you believe is in store for the Broncos.
Thanks for reading,
Mike
We’re mad because we, the fans saw it. We saw Hillis’ brilliance in his first year up to the catch that ended his season. Despite Mcd’s very best efforts, we saw it against the Chiefs last year and we’re seeing it now. We are seeing Hillis bring to the table what the Broncos have run out of…….Hope
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpS50GBFDpg&p=4CBE9C2533A4A44B&playnext=1&index=8 just a little something to lighten up the spirits of the bronco fans… Good times
cgred17…with all due respect, you hoped it would happen and you thought it might happen. Eric Mangini didn’t see it. If he had, Hillis wouldn’t have been so low on the depth chart last summer. Mike
Hey Mike,
Thanks for the reply and while I enjoyed reading your article, I disagree with your premise. If you watch the Jets game, the Falcons game and the Chiefs game from his rookie year, he came in to a deflated situation and helped inspire those teams to victory. You cannot watch those games, as well as against the Chiefs last year and miss the fact that he is and was special. The games against the Jets, Chiefs and Falcons on tv are ingrained in my memory because of the excitement I felt while watching those games (and deflation in the Chiefs game when he got hurt). He was a big part of those three performances. The only two games I’ve felt that since McD took over was against the Pats and Cowboys. I realize you write for Denverbroncos.com but Hillis and the other mistakes will cost McDaniels his job. The question is when not if because this team is done, and that’s hard for me to say.
With all due respect to Mike, everyone in Denver knew exactly what kind of heart and talent Hillis possessed before he got hurt in the 2008 season. However many words anyone wants to use to excuse the fact that McD didn’t bother using Hillis before he ended up trading him is simply not going to wash with the majority of the Bronco fans, and yes Shanny did eventually discover exactly how good Hillis was even if he had him low on the depth chart, because he said how good the kid was himself many times over when he was playing him and had Hillis not being hurt he would of kept him in there without a doubt. As for Mangini, he did what any coach does when you bring somebody new in for the good of the morale of the team, is you put Hillis down on the depth chart and let him earn his way up, anyone who thinks Mangini didn’t see he thought he got a great deal when he made that trade for Hillis is grasping at straws.
Bottom line even if McD needs comforting words around here as to simply attempting to keep him out of experiencing a complete breakdown, using the Hillis trade to do so appears to me as futile as anything else that could be said about McD. This was one of the worst Bronco trade all time and there is no way to sugar coat it through intellectual rationalization either way you spin it. I do love the love you send out to McD when you say “NFL coaches make mistakes. Josh McDaniels made one in this instance.” One! in this instance of course, but it still made me smile to no end, McD has already made such a large amount of mistakes in his Denver tenure, a coaching book will probably come out soon using McD as examples of what not to do in coaching to be successful in the NFL.
Anyhow, always respect your views, but if they somehow don’t ring true to me I have no choice but to rebute, and that was definitely the case here, McD blew it and while this move alone won’t cost him his job, I agree with cgred17 that it might definitely add up to all of McD’s faux pas, notice the politically correct tone here haha, and result in just that.
We are fans who are not always smart enough to know what it takes to make a winning team in this league, but I think many of us do know atrocious mediocrity in coaching when we see it, like 2-6, like 4-14, like 4 division home loss in a row, like a 59-14 loss to the Raiders, like Scheffler signing a three year deal in Detroit, like Phonzy rating 2nd in the NFL with 5 INT’s, like Hillis, sorry that was the subject of this post… Anyway I could go on and on but point is we fans may not be sophisticated but we can recognize what we see, ineptness at the head coaching position, the proof is in the numbers.
Sorry, ineptitude, but ineptness sounded good too.
Good points bay….I think it goes beyond just the coaching aspect. Obviously the organization is having difficulty scouting talent which dates back to the Shanny era as well. Shanny and Co. could not seem to find defensive players that would, at this point, be complements to the likes of Dumervil and Williams etc… The search continues for solid or beastly D-linemen. My point is that aside from any coaching gaffes is that the organization seems to be unable to find anything but offensive talent at the skill positions with a few exceptions. Actually a better way to say is we continually put band-aids on our real needs. This year we needed help in the trenches. While there is still hope for the Beadles and Waltons of the world…what about the D-line? Where’s our Suh? Bay, you also make good points that we as fans don’t know what goes into putting an NFL team on the field. So maybe I’m just spewing crap founded in ebarrassment and anguish. I just don’t want to re-live the early ’70s.
Bottom line: I think it starts with management. We lack quality there. I think we need to bring in complimentary talent, through the DRAFT and bring in someone who can coach ‘em up. Yes I am aware that this process will take years. Let’s do it already!!!
Well Bay pretty much summed up exactly what I was thinking,thanks Bay,you saved me a lot of typing.LOL.
McD has made a LOT of mistakes,I know he’s young.but c’mon man,he dismantled the #3 Offense in the NFL.Then spent millions on a over the hill Dline,that’s no better than the one we had.Ran off the best DC we probably ever had.plus he and Xanders don’t know how to evaluate talent.IMO.
I respect your posts Mike,but I won’t get over the things McD does.
If I was Mr.B I’d bring down the axe on McD and Xanders.
respectfully……
BFE
McD seems to have made bad decision after bad decision. He wanted to have “HIS” team, “HIS” way. Well, McD, here it is…..here is “YOUR” team. They’ve only won 4 games since their fluke 6-0 start. They are horrible in every facet of the game and I honestly don’t see them winning another game this year. I’m just hoping that with this sinking ship, the captain goes down with it, and doesn’t survive.
It just makes me so sick thinking about last year and how Moreno was put in 2nd and short and 3rd and short and goalline situations and over and over again, only to fail while a power back such as Hillis rode the pine……..for what? Putting personalities aside, or and off field issues, it is the job of the coach to put the personel on the field that gives his team the best chance to win, and he never ever gave Hillis that opportunity…….but stuck to his draft pick Moreno, who proved he just couldn’t get it done. BTW – Moreno has still not won me over by any means…..he still dances too much and can’t get those tough yards when you need them most.
Im one of the biggest Moreno apologists there is. When he breaks off a nice run I think he is great and he will be great. But the more I watch him, he just screams third down scat back. Running draws, catching screens, catching checkdowns and making something out of nothing. He just isn’t a first and second down back. There is nothing wrong with that, most of the good teams in the NFL have more than one back. But we are in need of a workhorse, and of course, Hillis was that guy. But its in the past, next year, lets get someone that can fill that void.
Look, the season is bad, really bad, Im more of an optimist but it is hard to be one right now. But if we can win this week, we’ll only be two games out with 7 to play. Yes, we are hanging off of a cliff and holding onto the bus tires, but we haven’t fallen yet. I’m excited for this weeks game because I feel like this is it. We win this and we still play for something for at least one more week, we lose, and its over. So Im going to enjoy this game, because it might be the last one I care about until September of 2011. Go Broncos.
Curt
Mike,
You talk about being honest yet your entire article is full of disingenuous statements.
Yes, Shanny had Hillis buried on his depth chart for running back because Hillis was ROOKIE FULL BACK. Hillis wasn’t drafted to be running back but when Shanny ran out of options he was basically forced to switch Hillis to running back. The funny thing about this is Shanny has done this before.
McD made a huge mistake by not scouting the team he was put in charge of and promptly went out and wasted the 12th pick in the draft on Kno Sho when he had the player he claims to want already on the roster and Hillis is far cheaper. Anyone with eyes could tell that Hillis was a natural at rb except for McD.
I can guarantee you that Mangini remembers what Hillis did to his 2008 Jets team which is why he required Hillis as part of the trade. Of course Hillis went in to Cleveland buried on the depth chart, he just got there and needed to learn the play book.
what has been clear to me ever since josh took over this team is that he just is not mature enough. he has the maturity of a 15 year old high school kid. starting with almost getting into a fight with a san diego player last year. then on to benching and trading schefler and marshall as far as i can tell because he just didnt like them. same with cutler. he is afraid of anyone that opposes him in any way. he cant take it when someone tries top challenge his power so he ships them out of town. and of course there is hillis. i really think that he just didnt play hillis last year because he just didnt like him. and if that is the deal then he has no need to be coaching a team. not wanting someone to do good because you dont like them WHEN THEY ARE ON THE SAME TEAM AS YOU is stuff you would see out of a 13 year old KID. so in short….josh just is too much of a baby to run an NFL team
It looks as if this advice given to the fans that it’s time to get over it (this McD trading Hillis thing) is backfiring.
Big uggly trades in a franchise is like uggly divorces in ones life, you will move on, but you never will get fully over it.
And if you did you would have learned nothing.
Some things are needed to be remembered as to learn not to ever do the same mistakes again, the Hillis trade is one of those.
As far as the Hillis thing goes….he’s good…he’s gone…get over it.
LMAO…
Great humor story from bd (daniel), one of the top blogger at the DP, I hope he won’t mind me pasting it here, I changed some of the words so it would not be going under moderation here:
Good morning, my name is Josh, is Mr Bowlen home? the kid said…
Yes, Pat is here, Pat honey, the carpenter is here….. mrs Bowlen said with curlers in her hair..
Good morning Mr Bowlen. Good to see you again after the last 18 months of work… said the diminutive contractor.
Ya, uh, i wanted to talk to you about that. said Mr Bowlen You havent gotten much done have you? You keep building the structure, then ripping it down and selling the wood, and the wood you get in return is AWFUL. Its all full of holes… What gives…? You said we’d be toast of the neighborhood by now, and we’re a DISASTER!
Oh, well, the contractor said with his trademark snake oil smarmy smile on his thin lips…its true the original build we spent the first load of wood on didnt work out. We had enough materials to get us substantially to the end result, but the plans didnt work, so we ripped it all down. SO, so we ordered the same amount of wood, but that actually made the project even LESS sturdy, so we took those parts, and are moving them to the other side of the structure…so im here today to ask for another years wages and for you to buy another unit of wood.
But you havent done anything! Pat raged, his coffee spilling all over his bunny slippers, All you have done is spend and were right back at the place where we were when you started building two years ago! AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, THE NEIGHBORS ARE GETTING UPSET CAUSE THE PROPERTY IS IN SHAMBLES.
Bowlen took a deep breath… and looked the small man in the forehead.
So let me get this straight. You want me to HIRE you again for another year, and watch you throw my resources down the drain, and you expect me to belive that you will do a much better job than you did over the LAST two times we had this discussion?
Yeppers Chief, thats about the size of it… the contractor smarmed.
You know, your brochure is much nicer than your work….. im stuck…. guess you have another year to TWEAK the designs… to spend huge amounts of wood on a structure that was already comming along nicely… damn it but you have another year….
thank you sir… .sign here.. ok that wraps it up… OK CREW, TAKE THE DAY OFF. Have a nice day Mr Bowlen. the kid yelled as he took off his work belt and ran for his Jaguar XJS.
Now, that’s pretty hilarious and right on the money!
haha nice!
The Bronco fans have spoken. We know talent when we see it. Peyton Hillis was and is the real deal. When McD wouldn`t play Hillis all the fans said, are you crazy, put the mauller in. His average of yardage was 5.5 per carry. Now the Browns have him and he`s still GOT IT. I`m sorry, but the pruff is in the pudding. We all cried out, play the guy. Are you that idoitic. I like McDaniels. But by far this is his biggest mistake trade. Not Cutler, not Marshall, not Scheff, and not even Phonzy. Trading away Peyton is a monumental mistake. HUGE if you ask me. Enough said. Lets start winning some games.
Fine, since I am a contractor, lets stick with that analogy. Is it really Josh McDaniels fault? Or is it the subcontractors (coaches)and the Labor (players) responsibility? Let’s just get that on the table. Who is actually on the field missing tackle and not making the blocks? Sure, there is some design issues; but this is a TEAM effort. Everyone carries some blame here. With the 6-0 start last year did McDaniels really have enough reason to do a complete overhaul?
I agree that he is young and in-experienced and made some mistakes. But again, like I said before, show me a willing replacement that we are guaranteed to have more success with. There are no guarantees in this business. It is not even a guarantee that Josh wont win out the rest of this season. (while very unlikely) It is always so easy to poke fun and rip down others and their efforts. Even the best contractors make mistakes, it is how they respond to their mistakes, how they make things right that allows us to judge.
While I am seriously dissatisfied with the results thus far; I will continue on with Hope and Optimism that Josh will make amends. I will will leave the time period for this up to his boss.
Go Broncos!!!!!!!!
Dang I hate to so vehemently disagree with you Mike, but only ONE coach didn’t see the talent in Hillis and that was McD.
Answer me this Mike, how many 7th round RB’s are on teams? Especially those drafted to be FB, which is the position he played in college, blocking for Jones and McFadden. I am sure none. Most of those guys are trading camp fodder. Shanny saw the talent in this kid and KEPT him on the team. Not the PRACTICE SQUAD, the team. He was the one constant we had in the running backfield that year, and when everyone got hurt, Shanny put him in AND HE PRODUCED.
What complicates matters in this Mike and what you failed to mention is that after this quarterback “upgrade” that you speak of, McD/Xanders then used a first round pick to draft a QB. So, basically, you trade away a valuable resource, expect everyone to believe that you have solidified the QB situation, and then you draft a QB. That made no sense.
Even FURTHER complicating and simply making this decision one of total buffoonery is that he has continued to make ridiculous decisions. I think in totality, this is just the straw that breaks the camels back. Had Hillis been the ONLY bad decision, I think that the lamenting of the Bronco fans would be a lot less. But with every Chicago, Miami and Detroit victory propelled by former Broncos the salt is poured into the wound.
I know adn understand Mike that it is part of your job to be a silver lining, to be part of the Bronco media machine and turn the naysayers into 07Elway. (She by far is the most positive person on tis site) but this blog borders on insulting the intelligence of the fans. It seems like propoganda to turn the thoughts of mindless sheep, and I think these fans are far more astute than that.
This regime is by far and bar none the worst in football right now. We have overnight become a league laughing stock. The ONLY saving grace was the INCREDIBLY lucky 6-0 run of last year. A caveat in an otherwise dreadful existence.
I still respect you Mike and enjoy reading what you write. I know you are handcuffed in what you can and cannot say…therefore I give you the benefit of the doubt. CHEERS from the East Coast
Trash like that happens every day, even out on the blue collar working field. What villians will do to get that extra dollar or in many cases extra million. Funny how that works. You ask for it. Have a nice day?
Hey Folks, good responses. I appreciate them.
cgred17 and vabroncoguy…I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. I’ve been posting on the Broncos website for several years now and I am not told what to write. I am not told what topics to cover or not cover. I posted this blog very early this morning before the person I work with even knew what I was writing about.
So please, disagree as much as you’d like or agree as much as you’d like with any post. That’s completely fine. I am not handcuffed in what I can say. If you don’t believe that, at least come out and say you just don’t believe it. And if you don’t believe it, that is fine.
But if we could refrain from the “he writes for the Broncos website so the Broncos control what he says” line of thinking, I would really appreciate that. Anyone who continue to believe that 1) is completely off base and 2) undermines his own credibility even more.
vabroncoguy, it’s o.k. that you disagree with me on this one. It really is. I respect your opinion and in terms of the bottom line, agree with it. I don’t like the trade.
All of you who have posted to this point make some valid points in talking about the Hillis trade. I think it is pretty clear that I believe the trade was a mistake. My point in writing the piece was to show that, to me, it isn’t as simple as saying it was a bad trade…AT THE TIME THE TRADE WAS MADE.
Furthermore, I’m not trying to turn anyone into anything. I don’t even know who 07Elway is. It isn’t up to me to make you think more positively about the Broncos. And what exactly is “the Broncos media machine?” I am hardly part of anthing like that because one simply doesn’t exist.
jcje…you are correct in saying Hillis was drafted as a fullback. But Coach Shanahan still missed how good Hillis was as a runner. Simple as that. That isn’t disingenuous. It is fact. He didn’t see Hillis’ talent until he had to. The way I see, that means he missed it.
That doesn’t make Coach Shanahan a bad coach. It just means we can group him in with Coach McDaniels and Coach Mangini.
And no, I don’t believe Coach Mangini knew he was getting a guy who would do what he is doing now. That is a matter of opinion and you hold a different one about what Coach Mangini thought he was getting.
You say my post was full of disingenuous statements. Simply because Hillis was drafted as a fullback does not make my point about Shanahan missing his talent as a running back disingenuous. Throwing out a line that my post is full of disingenuous statements might make one feel good but it doens’t make it true. You might disagree with what I write, which is totally fine.
But I tried to take an honest look at the issue. I agree with those of you who don’t lke the trade. The first line of the piece states that.
What other option is there now other than to say…look, bad trade. Didn’t work out at all. I really don’t lke it. But given that the trade was made, I sure hope the Broncos get things together with the guys they have.
Most of you who posted a response have turned this into a “here’s one of the reasons I want Coach McDaniels to go” line of thinking. That wasn’t the point of my piece. The piece wasn’t addressing the job Coach McDaniel has been doing. It was simply taking a look at one trade and the lightning rod the deal has become because it has turned out to be a bad one for the Broncos.
I understand the frustration. I’m not saying don’t be frustrated. When a team is 4-14 in its last 18 games, there are issues. I have hardly been shy in saying that. Read some of the recent posts. Heck, go back and read what I said about the offensive line in this piece. I’m hardly giving the Broncos a free pass and excusing things away.
vabroncoguy, you write “He was the one constant we had in the running backfield that year, and when everyone got hurt, Shanny put him in AND HE PRODUCED.”
I disagree. In 2008, the one constant in the backfield was injuries. No one could stay healthy and no one could consistently produce over the course of the season. Yes, Hillis, did play well when he was in there but he, too, got hurt. And he wasn’t even in the lineup on a regular basis as the running back until many of the guys in front of him went down.
You also ask a good question about how many 7th round draft picks make an NFL team. And then you go on to say that McDaniels is the only coach who didn’t see Hillis’ talent.
By definition, a 7th round pick is passed over by every team more than once. So if everyone knew Hillis was this good, how in the world did he last until the 7th round?
Again, my point here is not try to make the case that the trade has turned out well. That’s as ridiculous as trying to make the case the Broncos are having a good season.
One of my points is to say, hold on. Criticize McDaniels for the deal. That’s fine. But he isn’t the only coach who thought the way he thought about Peyton Hillis. I’m not saying that means McDaniels is doing a good job as coach of the Broncos.
One other thing, vabroncoguy. You are correct, I failed to go on to talk about the quarterback.
Two things…1) when McDaniels acquired Quinn there was no way he could have known he would be able to draft Tebow. He may have hoped to and he may have known he wanted to take Tebow. But if he didn’t make the Quinn deal and then he weren’t able to pick Tebow…uh oh. No change at the quarterback position behind Orton. And then that would have likely become a huge criticism.
2) I didn’t mention the quarterback situation because the piece is about the Hillis trade. I can’t cover every topic in every piece.
Thanks again, all. Really enjoy getting your thoughts.
Best,
Mike
your to easy on coach mcd. if the fans saw his promise before he was ever traded then he also did but traded anyway.
I tell you what, I like this Mike Rice guy. You guys rip everything he says apart like you know everything. I like the way he has a level head about it and doesn’t lash out at you “bloggers”. You would think with all these great coaches on these blogs and in the stands that McDaniels would have all the help he needs.
Big win Sunday, back to within two games of the division. 17 Week season, not 9.
Go Broncos!!
Hillis has always been a stud and I guarantee he is an all star in a year. No excuses, big mistake, Alphonso was also a mistake, although I believe he could have never achieved what he is achieving now in Denver. MARSHALL big mistake! One big mistake hurts, but they happen, 3-4 Kills teams! No more mistakes for me plz!
Go Broncos!
on the other hand, poor Stafford the guy just cannot stay healthy!
Wow I have never seen so many haters in one spot, wats it take to add yall to my hater list? Oh ya here goes McDaniels is a good coach building a team takes time there are alot of pieces to put together it doenst happen overnite.
GO BRONCOS
I will respectfully and furthermore apologize to you Mike (if that is fine to call you that) for insinuating anything untrue. I will in the future refrain from saying those things and respect the fact that you are a free thinking writer with the ability to voice your opinions as you please. I do disagree with you SOMEWHAT on the Hillis matter but I think that it is a matter of wording more than anything. I do feel that your counterpoint was well thought out and effective and I will step down on my semi bashing of your post. LOL
a bit of insight, as I retort, 07Elway is a frequent commenter on the site, many of the regulars are used to her, and I used her more as a point of reference for those that are familiar with her.
I believe that in the overall frame of thinking, your logic is solid in the belief that at the time, the Hillis trade did not seem overly out of the way, or overtly horrible. It is in HINDSIGHT as you stated that the err of this trade was magnified. I will say, that although not NFL execs by any means, there were quite a few fans, who at the time of the trade thought it was horrendous and I was indeed one of them. I felt that Hillis was a commodity, a player with “it” and that we were giving up too many of those guys. I also at the time of the trade felt it was mismanagement of Hillis by McD that led him to be in the doghouse. I felt that someone with his skill set had no business returning kicks. I was at the Cleveland game when he fumbled and it seemed never returned to the field. When he fumbled I yelled “That’s what happens when a fullback returns kicks”. I feel that led to the trade, and I felt it was horrible.
To your point of not knowing he would be able to get Tebow, I disagree with you as well. That is why you have advanced scouting. That is why you develop a draft plan. I do not know, but I do not believe that Quinn was a “hot commodity” and unable to be secured after the draft. additionally, we had 2 first round picks, and the ability to package them in a variety of ways, meaning that if ebow was wanted, we could have gotten him. NO PROJECTIONS had him going before our picks. So again, mismanagement by the coach/GM.
Overall, I have goten way off topic, but I think that a lot of the frustration with this team is that McD/Xanders are making a lot of moves, and not just one that are leading this team down a destructive path. In addition, it seems that instead of learning from these moves, they make additional bad moves. (Smith trade, what in the world)
Great debating Mike…enjoyed it
@Broncosfolife88 could you please substantiate your comment rather than just call folks haters. I would like to see what it is that McD has done to be called a “good coach” in your book and how this team is being built for future success. Thanks.
All this talk and even a blog titled for Coats for this:
Daniel Coats’ tenure with the Broncos lasted only a day.
The tight end, who was signed on Tuesday, was released by the Broncos Wednesday morning when the team re-signed running back Lance Ball to the active roster. Ball was on the 53-man roster in weeks 1 and 2, but has been on the practice squad since.
Isn’t that a bit silly, being so unfamiliar with whoever you bring in that you release them after one day…. Somebody is obviously not doing their job, unless he didn’t pass a physical, but I didn’t hear anything about that. The more we go along the more it becomes obvious that top to bottom things are amiss at Dove Valley these days, it’s like a group effort to go off that cliff.
I LOVE ME SOME DENVER BRONCOS!!!!!!
Win or Lose! I will always be a Denver Bronco Fan….
It’s good to be back home!!!!
Thanks Kyle!
ILMSDB!
I gotta agree with Va and Baylin here. And probably everyone else too.
What gets me mike is that you keep saying because he was drafted in the 7th round, his talent wasnt seen, or nobody thought he would be this good. Im sorry but not everyone can be drafted in the first round, and the ones drafted in the first round arent drafted because they are going to be good, they are drafted based on HIGHEST potential, hence why Hillis was a 7th round pick (cause he didnt have much play time but potential was still there). Like the rest I enjoy reading your post and am a avid blogger but with all due respect, your arguement in this one is VERY weak. If Shanahan had a YOUNG QB who supposedly knew McDaniels playbook im sure he would have traded for hillis cuz when u draft a guy it means u saw somethign. Same could be said for Torrain who is now a Redskin.
I do agree however as u do that, it was a bad trade, the trade is done, we move on. BUT EVERY fan was pissed off about the trade cuz we knew what he had the potential to do. Not to mention, he was our ONLY power back in a sheme that runs a power O. This regime has done nothing but run around like chickens with their heads cut off. NO planning nothing. Maybe there was planning but dumb plans. We have basically been spinning our wheels for the past two years. He traded a Young QB, WR, TE, RB, CB. And has since drafted a QB in 1st, WR in 1st, RB in first, TE in second. If that doesnt reak of going in circles i dont know what does. Just wasting picks….
That my friend is what I was trying to say when I said McD and Xanders can’t evaluate talent,thus they make whacked out trades,and poor drafting.
And let the record show I am a hater,I won’t mention names.
Coats released the next day,and how many times are we gonna bring in Ball???
Man this ain’t even funny anymore!!!!!!!!!!
Why do we need Ball,isn’t Moreno,Buck,and Maroney healthy???
I hope Lendale White is 100% next year,because he will be the best RB we have,if McD don’t trade him too.
this team’s front office is a comedy of errors. Hey we got that TE you wanted Josh…huh, someone showed interest in a practice squad guy. A guy who probably wasn’t gonna see the field? So we had this guy, he is not good enough to play at all, so bad in fact that we trade a pick to get Maroney, but we have to “protect” him and bring him to the active roster? Seriously? It hurts so bad to be a fan of this team right now.
BFE, im suprised u still ask question. Trying to find logic in what McXanders do but your efforts are futile. Like i said, all we do is spin our wheels. Just sit back and enjoy the ride, or train wreck, whatever lol.
amen va
like i once posted, sheffler wasnt perfect but he was a great recieving TE and a decent blocker. Since then many TEs have come and then faded into obscurity. Quinn, Branson, gronkowski, coats, …. some moves dont make sense anymore. And Gronkowski was like a 4th string TE, they were probably going to drop him but we traded a former first round pick phonzy for him, and then we traded picks for Maroney, who was also rummored to be on the chopping blog. Yup, id say it hurts to be a fan right about now…
Bay if you’re taking predictions…….. Man I hate to do this but bc we couldn’t find, borrow, or steal effort in the first 8 games. My prediction is……
Thiefs – 31
Broncos – 23
Turnovers, penalties, and dumb play calling prevents us from getting the W.
TRB,,,,,,,,so true.
I hear ya caramello. usually i can predict our team winning even when things look bleak, but the fact that i can’t make a positive prediction just shows how hopeless we are and i refuse to predict them losing even tho they probably will. would prefer to just not predict at all. Well, we still have any given sunday as a factor lol.
Mike
I think you stirred up the pot my friend,there are a lot of frustrated fans including myself,just waiting to take shots at the coach,and I’m afraid unintentionally we may have taken your blog,and turned it into a bash McD blog,and I am sorry for that.Please overlook us,as we are justifiably angry.
Broncos 27-20 Tebow throws touchdown pass
Thanks mike. I like McD and hope he fixes some of our problems out by years end. I`m still pulling for him, but losing my patience. The Hillis trade is what really burned me, especially with our running game being so awful. That just blows me away. What to do? What to do? For starters lets pull out a win.
OMG my post worked. I have posted at least five times on my other computer and wouldn’t take.
Wierd. You sign a player who has never been a part of the team, and release him less than 24 hrs later.
@vabroncoguy I will gladly offer you an explanation for my previous post. Please make note that what I am saying is simply a matter of my opinion, I am not calling anyone out directly only simply stating my piece, so please to all those who read what I am about to say recognize that I am simply stating my own opinion, thank you for your consideration in advance.
As to the haters comment,
Evertime I come on these blogs all I see or rather read is several members speaking about how terrible this is or that is especially in regards to Mr. McDaniels. I have seen more coach bashing here than I have ever seen which is quite frankly sad to me. Also I am again going to refer to a comment made by Mr. Rice in a previous blog. “When things are going good in sports it seems like the good times will never end” of course the opposite applies as well. I am simply saying that many of these bloggers (you know who you are I wont say names) who are calling for Mr. McDaniels head on a platter are the same ones who last year were chirping about the playoffs and how good this team was at 6-0. Now I will be the first person to state that since then we have encountered many problems in many different areas, I am simply stating that these are the same members who are now coach bashing. By my defination that is a bandwagon hater but its all good gon and hate homie.
Now as to your quetion as to how this team is being built for future success I will gladly register my opinion to this matter as well,
Since McDaniels has come in he has relieved this team of several talented players who refused to be dedicated to the team and were rather dedicated to themselves, I hope I dont have to state any names. These players have since been replaced with players with great talent who are dedicated to this team. The only trade I absolutely disagree with was the subject of this particular blog and is also in hindsight. Now we have a good QB who I believe is better than his backups, two firstround picks. We have a young offensive line that is starting to come together. Now before you start to argue about our line please recognize that they are still young and it takes time to come together, they are a young group that is going to be one of the best with some experience. We have a strong recieving core that is only getting better and has some young talent that with experience will make them even better. The running back situation has some hole in it but I still think Moreno has the talent to become a great running back. He simply needs a better supporting cast. On the defensive side as I have stated in the past we have young talent that is learning from veterans (I am speaking of our DBs) who are some of the best this league has ever seen. This young talent will come together to be one of the best this league has seen in time.We have some strong LB’s especially in DJ, Haggan Ayers (another young talent who with time will be very good) and of course the man we miss the most Doom. Our line needs work but I still want to see Vickerson healthy. Bring it all together and what you have is a team that is developing around some solid talent. Of course there are always areas which can improve (the run on both sides) but you cant fix everything in a day.
I hope that clarifies what I was stating in my earlier post for you. Also I would like to take this opportunity to appologize to any who were upset by the manner in which I presented both this post and my earlier post, I am simply tired of seeing so many looking at all the bad instead of the positives everywhere on this team. I recognize and respect all of your opinions I can only hope you do the same with mine.
GO BRONCOS THE NEXT EIGHT ARE ALL THAT MATTERS STARTING WITH THE CHIEFS LETS GET IT DONE
My guess is as good as any, but I think in the near future Coats will be signed again by us. Just a guess.
broncofforlife
the leaders in the McD aint cutting it campaign, are probably SNDVL, Bay, VA, My self, and a few others (only because we are frequent commenters). Now when we state our opinions, we back them up with facts, so i dont consider that hating. Hating is when u hate for no apparent reason. To clarify, sndvl has been on the fire McDaniels campaign but cooled it when McD supporters were getting rubbed the wrong way, Baylin has always been i believe he calls is “cautiously optimistic”, Va even in the 6-0 start wasn’t a believer, and me well, never liked the guy since day one. I could be considered a hater cuz when i didnt like him, he hadnt given me a reason yet, but there are plenty reasons now. And during the 6-0 period, only thing i was excited about was that he was getting along with Brandon Marshall, which was a good thing cuz i didn’t want to see him go (ask anyone).
So no, not haters. And those who were supporting in the highs and crucifying in the lows, have a VERY good reason too, because no matter what way u look at it, he is NOT getting it done, and the majority of his moves are puzzling. I will respect your opinion, but to call people haters or bandwagon fans because they don’t drink the kool aid i believe is inaccurate. If none of us cared about this team, we would’nt even bother commenting, so the ones u should be calling band wagonners are those who were here, yelling and hooting and blah blah blah when we are up but have dissapeared in the hard times. Just my take however