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	<title>Comments on: Seniors Committee HoF Nominees: No Broncos, Again</title>
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		<title>By: Jim Saccomano &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Three Broncos on Hall of Fame Ballot</title>
		<link>http://blog.denverbroncos.com/archives/seniors-committee-hof-nominees-no-broncos-again/comment-page-1/#comment-3935</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Saccomano &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Three Broncos on Hall of Fame Ballot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 01:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.denverbroncos.com/mason/2007/08/23/seniors-committee-hof-nominees-no-broncos-again/#comment-3935</guid>
		<description>[...] Of course, two of those six slots will likely be taken by veterans committee choices, with Floyd Little already having again beeen overlooked by that group. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Of course, two of those six slots will likely be taken by veterans committee choices, with Floyd Little already having again beeen overlooked by that group. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: bachslunch</title>
		<link>http://blog.denverbroncos.com/archives/seniors-committee-hof-nominees-no-broncos-again/comment-page-1/#comment-3934</link>
		<dc:creator>bachslunch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 23:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.denverbroncos.com/mason/2007/08/23/seniors-committee-hof-nominees-no-broncos-again/#comment-3934</guid>
		<description>If you&#039;re talking Broncos who are eligible for HoF Seniors committee consideration, by far the most viable options are Floyd Little and Rich &quot;Tombstone&quot; Jackson. I&#039;m fine with Little getting in if he gets the chance, as he&#039;s probably the most accomplished RB from the old AFL days, and no RB from the old AFL is in. Jackson&#039;s injury shortened career (7 years) likely works against him, as does his having only one all pro selection and 3 pro bowls (or the equivalent).

I can get behind the idea of Randy Gradishar being in as well as Gary Zimmerman, and I can also potentially see a case for Steve Atwater. They&#039;re all eligible as regular candidates, though this is Gradishar&#039;s last year as such.

Karl Mecklenberg however is caught in a LB numbers crunch with other guys from his time including Andre Tippett, Chris Spielman, Clay Matthews, Cornelius Bennett, Charles Haley (also DE), Wilbur Marshall, Sam Mills, Rickey Jackson, and Kevin Greene. All have anywhere from 1-3 all pro selections and 3 to 6 pro bowls. The only meaningful thing I see separating them from each other are the appearances of Tippett, Greene, and Bennett on all decade teams. Distinguishing between them in HoF worth doesn&#039;t strike me as easy, and I&#039;m not sure why Mecklenberg is more deserving than these other folks.

And I have no problem at all with the three &#039;70&#039;s St. Louis Cardinals being in. Can anyone make a case for why Dan Dierdorf, Roger Wehrli, and Jackie Smith don&#039;t belong in? I don&#039;t see any good argument against them, and besides, running down guys who are in strikes me as being bad form and bad karma.

But I do think the two seniors nominees this time around are really, really bad ones:

1. Marshall Goldberg played 8 years, about half of it during WWII against a depleted talent pool. And even then, his numbers look like Hall of the Very Good, and that is being really charitable. He never was a first team all pro and is not on any all decade teams (there was no pro bowl back then). And he had already come up as a Seniors candidate in 1979 and was voted down. Why choose him when they could have picked 40s linemen Al Wistert or Riley Matheson, both named to several all pro teams? Or 20s lineman Duke Slater, a fine player whose career was hurt as badly by racism as that of Fritz Pollard? Or 20s end Lavie Dilweg? Or if they needed a back, why not Dilweg&#039;s teammate Verne Lewellen? Awful, awful choice, if you ask me.

2. please tell me why Emmitt Thomas was chosen ahead of other DBs who are equally or more deserving, including (deep breath) Cliff Harris, Johnny Robinson, Lemar Parrish, Bobby Dillon, Bob Boyd, Abe Woodson, Jack Butler, and Jim Patton. Sure, Thomas has lots of interceptions -- but so do Robinson and Boyd. Thomas was an all pro twice, but except for Robinson, who spent almost all his career in the AFL, every one of these players made more such teams: Parrish and Butler 3, Boyd, Harris, and Woodson 4, Patton and Dillon 5. If you compare pro bowl appearances (or AFL equivalents), Thomas has 5 but so do Woodson and Patton, while Harris has 6, Robinson has 7, and Parrish 8. Dillon has 4. Butler also has 4 and Boyd only 2, but both are on their respective all-decade teams. And Thomas had a reputation for being a big on-field risk taker, one who sometimes got the pick but also got torched for TDs and big gainers. Hard to see this choice, either.

I certainly won&#039;t gripe if neither gets elected. I don&#039;t think they belong at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;re talking Broncos who are eligible for HoF Seniors committee consideration, by far the most viable options are Floyd Little and Rich &#8220;Tombstone&#8221; Jackson. I&#8217;m fine with Little getting in if he gets the chance, as he&#8217;s probably the most accomplished RB from the old AFL days, and no RB from the old AFL is in. Jackson&#8217;s injury shortened career (7 years) likely works against him, as does his having only one all pro selection and 3 pro bowls (or the equivalent).</p>
<p>I can get behind the idea of Randy Gradishar being in as well as Gary Zimmerman, and I can also potentially see a case for Steve Atwater. They&#8217;re all eligible as regular candidates, though this is Gradishar&#8217;s last year as such.</p>
<p>Karl Mecklenberg however is caught in a LB numbers crunch with other guys from his time including Andre Tippett, Chris Spielman, Clay Matthews, Cornelius Bennett, Charles Haley (also DE), Wilbur Marshall, Sam Mills, Rickey Jackson, and Kevin Greene. All have anywhere from 1-3 all pro selections and 3 to 6 pro bowls. The only meaningful thing I see separating them from each other are the appearances of Tippett, Greene, and Bennett on all decade teams. Distinguishing between them in HoF worth doesn&#8217;t strike me as easy, and I&#8217;m not sure why Mecklenberg is more deserving than these other folks.</p>
<p>And I have no problem at all with the three &#8217;70&#8242;s St. Louis Cardinals being in. Can anyone make a case for why Dan Dierdorf, Roger Wehrli, and Jackie Smith don&#8217;t belong in? I don&#8217;t see any good argument against them, and besides, running down guys who are in strikes me as being bad form and bad karma.</p>
<p>But I do think the two seniors nominees this time around are really, really bad ones:</p>
<p>1. Marshall Goldberg played 8 years, about half of it during WWII against a depleted talent pool. And even then, his numbers look like Hall of the Very Good, and that is being really charitable. He never was a first team all pro and is not on any all decade teams (there was no pro bowl back then). And he had already come up as a Seniors candidate in 1979 and was voted down. Why choose him when they could have picked 40s linemen Al Wistert or Riley Matheson, both named to several all pro teams? Or 20s lineman Duke Slater, a fine player whose career was hurt as badly by racism as that of Fritz Pollard? Or 20s end Lavie Dilweg? Or if they needed a back, why not Dilweg&#8217;s teammate Verne Lewellen? Awful, awful choice, if you ask me.</p>
<p>2. please tell me why Emmitt Thomas was chosen ahead of other DBs who are equally or more deserving, including (deep breath) Cliff Harris, Johnny Robinson, Lemar Parrish, Bobby Dillon, Bob Boyd, Abe Woodson, Jack Butler, and Jim Patton. Sure, Thomas has lots of interceptions &#8212; but so do Robinson and Boyd. Thomas was an all pro twice, but except for Robinson, who spent almost all his career in the AFL, every one of these players made more such teams: Parrish and Butler 3, Boyd, Harris, and Woodson 4, Patton and Dillon 5. If you compare pro bowl appearances (or AFL equivalents), Thomas has 5 but so do Woodson and Patton, while Harris has 6, Robinson has 7, and Parrish 8. Dillon has 4. Butler also has 4 and Boyd only 2, but both are on their respective all-decade teams. And Thomas had a reputation for being a big on-field risk taker, one who sometimes got the pick but also got torched for TDs and big gainers. Hard to see this choice, either.</p>
<p>I certainly won&#8217;t gripe if neither gets elected. I don&#8217;t think they belong at all.</p>
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		<title>By: tanker_67</title>
		<link>http://blog.denverbroncos.com/archives/seniors-committee-hof-nominees-no-broncos-again/comment-page-1/#comment-3908</link>
		<dc:creator>tanker_67</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2007 23:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.denverbroncos.com/mason/2007/08/23/seniors-committee-hof-nominees-no-broncos-again/#comment-3908</guid>
		<description>This is an ironic board post because recently on a football video game discussion board, we were talking about this very subject. It goes on beyond that though, because its very rare that when we have ANYTHING that is good, we get zero respect for it. Now now, there are quite a few people that are not bias against us, but for the most part, they are. I was reading a discussion about the Miami Dolphins today, and in it, it was a talk about Defensive player of the year. The author of the article stated &quot;Even though i still feel strongly that Champ Bailey deserved the honors.&quot; Its true, all the old geezers who are in charge of all this, are blind to what Denver has and has had. Its insulting. Heck, I truly believe that players like T.D. deserve to be in there more than most of them getting in now days. And as i said previously, its all these old geezers who don&#039;t give Denver ANY respect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an ironic board post because recently on a football video game discussion board, we were talking about this very subject. It goes on beyond that though, because its very rare that when we have ANYTHING that is good, we get zero respect for it. Now now, there are quite a few people that are not bias against us, but for the most part, they are. I was reading a discussion about the Miami Dolphins today, and in it, it was a talk about Defensive player of the year. The author of the article stated &#8220;Even though i still feel strongly that Champ Bailey deserved the honors.&#8221; Its true, all the old geezers who are in charge of all this, are blind to what Denver has and has had. Its insulting. Heck, I truly believe that players like T.D. deserve to be in there more than most of them getting in now days. And as i said previously, its all these old geezers who don&#8217;t give Denver ANY respect.</p>
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		<title>By: George Bush</title>
		<link>http://blog.denverbroncos.com/archives/seniors-committee-hof-nominees-no-broncos-again/comment-page-1/#comment-3909</link>
		<dc:creator>George Bush</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2007 00:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.denverbroncos.com/mason/2007/08/23/seniors-committee-hof-nominees-no-broncos-again/#comment-3909</guid>
		<description>As an Englishman I have always thought HOF awards were a joke. Real winners already have their awards via Superbowl and Championship wins. The only players to benefit from HOF&#039;s are losers. Elway didn&#039;t benefit as he had won already. Far more important to be honoured by your own fans and players. The HOF&#039;s are too political to count for much.

So don&#039;t fret Andrew. We know what we know, and that includes knowing Art Monk is a class act, and Bronco&#039;s players played for the best club and fans in the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an Englishman I have always thought HOF awards were a joke. Real winners already have their awards via Superbowl and Championship wins. The only players to benefit from HOF&#8217;s are losers. Elway didn&#8217;t benefit as he had won already. Far more important to be honoured by your own fans and players. The HOF&#8217;s are too political to count for much.</p>
<p>So don&#8217;t fret Andrew. We know what we know, and that includes knowing Art Monk is a class act, and Bronco&#8217;s players played for the best club and fans in the world.</p>
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		<title>By: myleshigh</title>
		<link>http://blog.denverbroncos.com/archives/seniors-committee-hof-nominees-no-broncos-again/comment-page-1/#comment-3910</link>
		<dc:creator>myleshigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2007 21:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.denverbroncos.com/mason/2007/08/23/seniors-committee-hof-nominees-no-broncos-again/#comment-3910</guid>
		<description>Mase, I was wondering the same exact thing when I saw that Irvin made it in before any other player.  I personally have a hard time even watching him on television just because of his off field embarassments.  As a broadcaster, he just won&#039;t shut up and let the other analysts speak there piece.  And when you said he went in before Monk, THATS FRICKEN RIDICULOUS.  I&#039;m not even a Redskins fan and that drives me crazy to even think about the records Monk has over Irvin, that coke sniffin, jaw flappin......i&#039;ll stop, but Andrew you brought me down the road.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mase, I was wondering the same exact thing when I saw that Irvin made it in before any other player.  I personally have a hard time even watching him on television just because of his off field embarassments.  As a broadcaster, he just won&#8217;t shut up and let the other analysts speak there piece.  And when you said he went in before Monk, THATS FRICKEN RIDICULOUS.  I&#8217;m not even a Redskins fan and that drives me crazy to even think about the records Monk has over Irvin, that coke sniffin, jaw flappin&#8230;&#8230;i&#8217;ll stop, but Andrew you brought me down the road.</p>
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		<title>By: scripinski</title>
		<link>http://blog.denverbroncos.com/archives/seniors-committee-hof-nominees-no-broncos-again/comment-page-1/#comment-3911</link>
		<dc:creator>scripinski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2007 16:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.denverbroncos.com/mason/2007/08/23/seniors-committee-hof-nominees-no-broncos-again/#comment-3911</guid>
		<description>Friends and I saw Gradishar and Mecklenberg in the HOF during John Elway&#039;s induction.  While scrambling for autographs and pictures, everyone (wearing orange or the number 7) was talking about how they had to be the next Broncos inducted.  Gradishar made a comment to the effect that &quot;They don&#039;t like the Broncos much around here.&quot;  No kidding!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Friends and I saw Gradishar and Mecklenberg in the HOF during John Elway&#8217;s induction.  While scrambling for autographs and pictures, everyone (wearing orange or the number 7) was talking about how they had to be the next Broncos inducted.  Gradishar made a comment to the effect that &#8220;They don&#8217;t like the Broncos much around here.&#8221;  No kidding!</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://blog.denverbroncos.com/archives/seniors-committee-hof-nominees-no-broncos-again/comment-page-1/#comment-3912</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2007 02:58:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.denverbroncos.com/mason/2007/08/23/seniors-committee-hof-nominees-no-broncos-again/#comment-3912</guid>
		<description>flyod little enough said</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>flyod little enough said</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://blog.denverbroncos.com/archives/seniors-committee-hof-nominees-no-broncos-again/comment-page-1/#comment-3913</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.denverbroncos.com/mason/2007/08/23/seniors-committee-hof-nominees-no-broncos-again/#comment-3913</guid>
		<description>Sharp deserves to be in and i&#039;m not just saying that as a fan.he did things as a TE that affect how the postion will be played for years.one of the greatest of all time that left a mark on the game that is not a stat that you can see but if you look at his stats you can see that their there to back a vote in to the hall of fame also.Over all there are alot broncos you can make an argument should be in right now and there are a ton(rod smith, jason elam,and ect.) that we know should make it.Some you need to make an argument for but Sharp is not one of them</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sharp deserves to be in and i&#8217;m not just saying that as a fan.he did things as a TE that affect how the postion will be played for years.one of the greatest of all time that left a mark on the game that is not a stat that you can see but if you look at his stats you can see that their there to back a vote in to the hall of fame also.Over all there are alot broncos you can make an argument should be in right now and there are a ton(rod smith, jason elam,and ect.) that we know should make it.Some you need to make an argument for but Sharp is not one of them</p>
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		<title>By: Broncosfan1983</title>
		<link>http://blog.denverbroncos.com/archives/seniors-committee-hof-nominees-no-broncos-again/comment-page-1/#comment-3914</link>
		<dc:creator>Broncosfan1983</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 14:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.denverbroncos.com/mason/2007/08/23/seniors-committee-hof-nominees-no-broncos-again/#comment-3914</guid>
		<description>What is really ridiculous is that the next Bronco that will probably be enshrined will be Shannon Sharpe. Not the he doesn&#039;t deserve it! But Gradishar, Jackson, Atwater, Mecklenberg. Maybe its just because I am a Broncos fan, but the lack of respect is unreal! I bet it will take Rod Smith a few ballots to get in as well.....Great! Now I&#039;m just angry! Not how I planned to start my Friday morning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is really ridiculous is that the next Bronco that will probably be enshrined will be Shannon Sharpe. Not the he doesn&#8217;t deserve it! But Gradishar, Jackson, Atwater, Mecklenberg. Maybe its just because I am a Broncos fan, but the lack of respect is unreal! I bet it will take Rod Smith a few ballots to get in as well&#8230;..Great! Now I&#8217;m just angry! Not how I planned to start my Friday morning.</p>
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		<title>By: studbucket</title>
		<link>http://blog.denverbroncos.com/archives/seniors-committee-hof-nominees-no-broncos-again/comment-page-1/#comment-3915</link>
		<dc:creator>studbucket</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 13:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.denverbroncos.com/mason/2007/08/23/seniors-committee-hof-nominees-no-broncos-again/#comment-3915</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s ridiculous Gradishar isn&#039;t in.  Thanks for the great stuff as always.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s ridiculous Gradishar isn&#8217;t in.  Thanks for the great stuff as always.</p>
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