Many a comment in this blog in recent weeks has focused upon the status of assistant head coach Jim Bates.
Tuesday, his status was resolved with the announcement he would not return for the 2008 season.
In a statement, Bates said that he had the chance to remain with the Broncos but opted to stand down after just one season in Denver.
“I’m very thankful for the opportunity and very saddened that things did not work out,” he said.
“I had the opportunity to stay. (Head Coach) Mike (Shanahan) has been very fair with me, and the final decision, for the Broncos and for me, was to step aside.”
Discuss below …
Tags: Jim Bates
One move down, several more to go. Denver should interview the Raiders’ recently fired d-coach. That Ryan guy. He could be a good candidate. Also, DO NOT let Lynch go. He needs to be back at least one more year for continuity-sake. He plays just as good as he ever did and Ferguson is not really that great unless he just happens to get better over the off season. Like I keep saying, draft a MLB in the 1st (move DJ back to the outside where he is even better), draft a safety in the 2nd (to train up and maybe even start from the beginning opposite Lynch), then draft a WR if they lose both Smith and Walker, if they do not lose both of those guys, then draft an OL because now they need to fill Lepsis’ hole (unfortunately), and then they need to trade someone like Travis Henry (Young and Hall are great - who isn’t with Denver RB-wise) and try and get someone great at DT to help fix that line and also help out Marcus Thomas - hopefully he will start next year. Yes, they will more than likely have a very young line out there (Moss, Thomas, Dumervil - a couple of other more experienced guys), but with some good coaching and time, they will all be great. Lastly, keep the rest of the defense intact, but maybe give Foxworth some more chances to shine (Bly is not that good). All in all, I think most of these moves that I would like to see might actually happen. But then again, this is just my opinion. But then again, maybe others will agree.
Superchop, I don’t want to waste a season rebuilding in ‘08. In order to run a 3-4 you need great linebackers. Sorry to say but Denver has one quality lb right now. You also need big strong defensive ends which we do not have. Moss and Dummerville are too small for a 3-4 d-end and too big and slow for a 3-4 backer. We would need to change just about everyone in the front 7. Not easily done to get that many quality players in one season let alone two or three.
It’s officially time to move to the 3-4, like NOW!!! Look around the league Shanny, how many 3-4 teams are dominant vs. the dominant 4-3 teams. The common factor in all good 4-3’s is usually 2 stud interior tackles and we’ve proved for 10 years that we can’t find them. As a consolation, not many can. The 3-4 will make it easier to give the QB a variety of looks, better run blitz alleys, tons of good stuff. So, let’s get Gordon back in the mix and any other fat bodies from this year and let them compete at NT. Then we use the draft for 2 big DE’s. Then, we have on our roster guys like Engleberger, Moss and Dumervil who need to play OLB or get traded. Our LB’s would basically be good to go when you consider that we already have DJ and Winborn for the middle to blitz both the run and pass. Right now, Elvis, Engle and I’m sure Moss when he comes back are getting MANHANDLED at DE!! Get them in spaces and we could have a special group.
It’s going to be a bitch to do, it will be another tough year on that side, but at least we can commit to a style of defense like we have on Offense. Then, it’s easier to draft, sign, retain, etc. Just like RB’s, there are more LB’s in the talent pool than stud DT’s and DE’s. Committ to a system and let it run for 10 years. We’ve proven for the last 10 that we can’t put it all the way togther in the 4-3. Even in the good run of games with Coyer, we never really dominated the field, we did produce results though. We need to sell out the other team to throwing and shutting down the run. Then, when our offense gets the run game going, the other team has to make every down count like we did this year. And, we all saw first hand that it’s tough for a passing offense to retain ANY rythym when the other team keeps them off the field.
Shanahan knows how to attack the 3-4, we always produce against Pitt and NE. Usually SD too except for this year, it would be a perfect team if he would go 3-4 and sell out to stopping the run…
IMHO, I mean make it happen!
First, I agree with jazzyfrizzle all the way. Secondly, people are now talking about going to a 3-4 defense. I say I don’t like it. Look at the Patriots. They don’t even have one or the other. They are coached very well, and they use whatever style defense they need to win the game. I think Denver is going to be a lot better this next season because they will bring in a guy who can adapt to the players.
The fact of the matter is that Jim Bates system doesn’t fit with what Shanahan is drafting. This defense is build for speed and attacking, not zone or cover 2. Bailey is a true shut down corner, but he’s best utilized when he can watch the quarterback and make the play. Ryan may be available from Oakland, apparently there is a lot of discontent between the head coach and Davis. The rumors have already begun that Baltimore’s ex d coordinator is first in line to take Gibbs spot so a move must be made with quickness. Come on Shanny, now admit you need more help in the G.M. department and hire some advisors that you’ll LISTEN TO!
how many losing seasons under shanahan now ? his record speaks for itself. i do think he needs a vacation, it was a tough year starting with the loss of d. will and d. nash. lots of new coaches and players, lots of injuries. put yourself in his shoes, he had a lot to deal with.
i’m sorry to see bates leave but his style of defense did not fit the bronco personal at all. unless the bronco’s plan on trading all our current defensive players to fit the next coach, i think it would be wise to find a coach that can get the most out of the players we have. it could come together quickly with the right scheme. the colts personal seems somewhat similair to me, maybe a defensive scheme along those lines would work for the broncos.
And Congrats to BERGER! That is one tough hokie.
I think with the personnel that denver has we have to run a 4-3. We do not have big enough DE to use the 3-4 well, and we don’t have a quick enough DE to use a hybrid defense like baltimore used. Look at the Patriots 3-4. Seymour is 315lbs at RE, Wilfork is 320, and Their LE is 305. The ravens list their defense as a 3-4, but when you look how it is set up, its a 4-3. Pryce is the LE, Gregg is listed as the DT, and Ngata is the RE, and Suggs is listed as a WOLB but usually pass rushes.
Unless a major overhaul happens for the front seven we are gonna stay in the 4-3.
Overall though i just can’t wait til next season. As much as we all complain about coaching and personnel decisions it is still just football, and if you don’t like it, don’t watch. Just enjoy the game for the sake of the game. Things could be worse than going 7-9, Bowlen could decide to move the team out of Denver for instance. I’m just going to be happy we have a football team in this state and enjoy watching my team play every sunday regardless if they win or lose.
I know what you are saying, but, do you want to just “get better’ or do you want to lay down the foundation for a super bowl trophy ?
The 4-3 is too predictable.
Hey jazzyfrizzle (awesome name, btw), I didn’t see a link to that article. Can you repost it?
If it’s me, I hire Joel Collier after New England wins the super bowl.
His dad Joe Collier set up the 3-4 in New England.
He also set it up in Denver.
It’s in his blood.
Every year there is a new defense or a new offense that works for a few years. Offenses are getting used to the 3-4. Maybe the 3-4 is the way to go however if you have good / great players it really does not matter which defense that you run. Look at the top 10 defenses in the NFL. 6 run the 4-3 / 4 run the 3-4.
Now thats half good news. Get rid of Shanny and we can start our off season.
But ask yourself……which defense gives you the best opportunity to beat the Colts?
I do believe Dumervil and Moss are quick enough to cover the flats, not so much man but they CAN cover a good portion of the field. I’m not saying overhaul the defense, but it’d be nice to see some new wrinkles in what we do! Thomas is a PERFECT fit for a 3-4 DE, but I don’t want to see us primarily use that type of formation by any means. Keep offenses guessing. Shanny’s already appointed his new d guy so we’ll have to wait and see where the teams headed. One or two more D lineman and there could be a lot of new looks on the front 7 next season. My one draft request, GET A MONSTER NOSE TACKLE!!!
finally. we dont need a new head coach. shanny is amazing.
Seriously, all of you under Shanny’s desk need to get a grip. He has been BAD the past 2 seasons, but no one is running him out on a rail!
I just think that if you have good players it does not matter which defense that you run. Look at the D when Robinson was here. A lot of zone blitzes dropping linemen into coverage basically a 3-4 in its inception. Get the players and I don’t care which defense that they run they will win.
Are you his official “excuse machine”? Come on man, look at the Giants, REDSKINS and especially the Jaguars….look at the IR and tell me why their in the playoffs then? Like I said, get a grip, Shanahan does not walk on water.
one down one to go….now we can also let go the special teams coach as well and we might have the replacement inhouse already. rick dennison was a backup linebacker and special teams monster in his playing days with the broncos…why he’s the offensive line coach is beyond me
Give me a break get rid of shanny there is some fools out there. You see what happend to San Diago when they got rid of there coach. There in the playoffs but there not the same team. We have a young team. Bates was maybe not the right coach our maybe he was. I truly believe with another year under Bates they could of improved but that my opinion. But now we get a new coach and another new defence to learn. That could be great or not. But my point is that we start replaceing coachs we only setting ourselfs up to fail. Sure there need to be alot of changes. but replacing coachs isn’t the right one.
Are some of you retarded. Shannahan is a way better coach.. He has a lot of experience.. Its not Shanny’s fault..
And for you guys who are crying about “Why Jim, Why’d you leave us”
HE was our problem… HE MANAGED THE F’N DEFENSE..The defense is the main reason we lost all our games this year..
It seems some of you are followers and not true football fans..
If you actually listened and watched and saw what our defense did and struggled with, you would want Bates out….. But some of you just don’t LISTEN.
Somebody get ahold of MUG and ask him what we could do to have an effective 3-4 by next year.
We definitely have speed on our side, AND we can probably get Abidi.
They say, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
Well, it’s broke,……….. let’s fix it the right way.
Okay, Okay, all of you who think offense had no part of this season being a disaster are WRONG!!!! Give me break, the play calling was very predictable and the offense looked lethargic most of the time. I am one who is happy that Bates is gone. I am one who is on the fence with Shannahan. I believe he still has some tricks up his sleeve, however the “08″ season will be the one that I fall to one side or another. As head coach and the LEADER of the Broncos football team, NO ONE, and I Mean NO ONE is more responsible for the outcome of the season than the Head Coach. A coaches or leaders responsibility are as follows. You interview, hire, and train the right personell to make you a successful TEAM. Remember a football team has three parts. #1 Offense, #2 Defense, & number #3 Special Teams, and of course all coaches. Shannahan picked Bates after firing Coyer. That as we all know was a bad hiring decision. So it’s been corrected. Our offense this season was very inconsistent and based on the talent we should of been able to get into shoot outs with other teams. Our offense played from behind the majority of the year and could not even score in the red zone. Who’s fault is that? Oh that is Shannahans fault to! Ultimately the responsibility falls on his shoulders and he has accepted that responsibility. I believe this year was mostly in part due to excecution and talent. Our players and coaches quite frankly were just not better than most of their opponents. Lets see what happens this off season and in the regular season. If this year is another disaster then I will be one that says it’s time for Shannahan to go. He gets one more pass from this long time fan, (Since 1979). Lets see how he uses it. Bates good ridence and good luck. Shannahan time to do some soul searchin, get back to the basics of great coaching, freshen up the offensive scheme, and find the best damn DC available and lets make a run at greatness one more time. I for one am tired of these dismal seasons.
My mind is made up. It was made up by the time we had our 50th 12 men on the field penalty.
Or maybe the 30 and 40 point games we got blown out in.
Or maybe just making joe schmo RBs and QBs look like Hall of Famers.
All of you posting on here wishing he had another year to wreak even greater havoc must be complete masochists.
That we had to wait until January 8th for this news is inexcusable.
Take your money and go.
oh, and dre bly has his own room at the burn unit. If he wants to carry bates’ bags out of town, I’ll kick in the tip.
Well, not sorry to see his inefficient schemes go, but it looks like Jim was Shanahan’s scapegoat for the year, following where Brian Griese, Jake Plummer, and Larry Coyer all went before. This wasn’t an honorable “I failed” resignation, this was “hey pal of mine, could you quit so I don’t have to fire you?” Jim Bates has just fallen on his sword to take any heat away from Mike Shanahan. Nice plan, Mike. Too bad it’s a quick fix.
The only good thing about Bates being Mike’s buddy in all this is, as stated somewhere above, the Broncos don’t have to necessarily look like a clueless, head-up-the-butt organization that carelessly and callously shreds through possibly capable assistants because they’re afraid to address the real problem…although they kind of seem to be at this point.
Shanahan’s starting to find himself betwixt a rock and a hard place, and he’s the one who put himself there. The third D.C. in three years had better be the charm, otherwise the only one left for the coach to blame will be himself…that’s one thing the “mastermind” hasn’t “mastered.”
It is what it is.
Keep in mind that Larry Coyer was not the greatest post-season coaching mind on the planet. (pretty sure the Bucs just got smoked)
Keep in mind that we hired Bates because of his record against the pass and the fact that Indy has owned us in the playoffs.
I find no fault in either of these moves.( We were supposed to do nothing ?)
We had lousy drafts, we changed our draft philosophy, now we are starting to find good young talent. We are also filling team needs via the draft, the DT situation will be addressed very shortly, keep your collective shirts on.
I would rather have a bold organization than one that sits on their hands when they are confronted with a problem. They also listen to the fans when they are clamoring for change. (Now your all Coyer fans again ?)
This was just a bump in the road.
Lets move forward.
HEY EVERYONE-
IT IS GOING TO TAKE THIS FRANCHISE THREE YEARS TO BE A SERIOUS CONTENDER FOR THE AFC CHAMPIONSHIP AGAIN. GET A GRIP.
All of you making excuses for Shanny and his “greatness” are playing too far in left field. HE RUNS THE SHOW, therefore, it’s related directly back to his door. Shanny hired Bates, hand picked him in fact, so knock of the love fest already. The offense hasn’t exactly been the model of consistency either, which is his forte. If you run the show you get the blame, quit kissing his ass, you guys aren’t getting a job on his staff you know!
Sure, the buck stops at Shanny’s door.
Anyone on the boards will tell you that I was one of the most outspoken critics of Jim Bates.
I also used to criticize our drafting, especially the philosophy.
I am not happy about the way Al Wilson and Jake Plummer were treated by the team.
But, to criticize offensive consistency clearly shows a lack of knowledge of the pro game, it will take Cutler 3 years to fully understand our playbook.
The results for a young QB ? Cutler is doing a nice job.
The results for Plummer, he won 75% of the games he ever played for us.
Offensively, we will be very good in the near future.
Defensively, we will continue to hire and fire until we get it right. that goes for players or coaches. We have the luxury of developing defensive talent to coincide with Cutlers progress, keep in mind that there is a pretty significant jump between year one and two on the defensive side of the ball.
As long as we are headed in the right direction, we will be allright, talk to me again in about a year, better yet, apologize to me in about a year.
HEY MASON! You`re an insider, so tell us something, does Mr. Bowlan read your blogs and does he take into consideration the thoughts of his loyal, (paying) fans?…….
bates is a great coach, his system just didn’t work. Worked in green bay but not in Denver.
We need a fast defense rather than 325+ guys in the middle.
I just hope the next defensive coordinator knows this.
Does any body know how to get in touch with Mr. Ryan with the Ravens or even Ron Riveria pick up the phone an start calling
funnycar, you really are funny…most of the loyal, (paying) fans don’t even read what THEY type, and you want Mr. Bowlen to take a look?
Overall, this is a pretty silly argument, but it’s still fun, so I’ll contribute.
There is no way to know whether it was the scheme or the coaching style, but something wasn’t “gellin” with the players. Personally, I think our corners were misused and D.J. was a letdown at middle. We didn’t have any true run-stoppers on the line and there were enough holes for most teams to play sans-offensive line and do fine. So, yeah, I’m disappointed in Bates. I had high expectations and he let me down. However, I’ll postpone the celebration till I see if the Broncos actually acquire a coach or just promote and pray.
Let me say, I hate Shanahan’s record post-Elway. I really hate the drop in offensive production inside the 20, runs over 20 and offensive line issues. I don’t “blame” Shanny for the defense, but I hold him responsible to find a solution and he hasn’t done it. It seems to me that Shanahan may not have the ear of the players like he once did. He hasn’t ever been a ‘player’s coach’ and I’m fine with that, but he does need them to respect him and want to play for him. I fear that THAT is dwindling. Coaches don’t have a long shelf-life as evidenced by Shanahan and Fischer having the longest tenure. Shanahan has been doing this job for a long time, and I wonder (outloud, usually screaming at the TV) if he’s lost some mental agility.
This is a strange offseason, in part because it’s a losing season, but also because the team seems to have better talent on offense but still be further away from a championship. I want Shanahan to prove me wrong or leave. I don’t think we have to have a championship to have a successful season, but we do have to win a playoff game, we do need to have a top 5 team in significant categories, and we do need the players to seem like they are all on the same team.
If Shanny doesn’t win the west next season you can bet you’ll hear some serious rumblings. Walkers mouth has overloaded his talent and Shanahan has no patience for ego driven players. I thought D.J. struggled early in the season but really came on late. Any guy with 140+ tackles in THAT system with 2 DE’s playing tackle has got some skills.
All I have to say is that this was the best move of all the people we cut of the year…from day one Denver’s defense could not buy into Bates’ scheme…im on the horn to find Rex Ryans’ number…
dude i agree what is that Baltimore’s coaches number
By far the best news of the season!
yeah but next year were going to have all new coaches on Defense and have another year of inconsistent play…i remember when we won the super bowl….the years prior everybody, wanted the d cordinators head…but he did good enough then we sent him to KC…..its the players !!
I have read in a couple of reports that shanny is having a press confrence on thursday and is expected to announce that Bob Slowik will be promoted to D-Cord. I hope this is not the fact becuase he is a great DB coach but not a good D-Cord. Why do you think Green Bay got rid of him for Bates and now we get rid of Bates for Slowik. This would be a bad move. We need a New fresh D-Cord that can come in a turn this Defense around!!!
Slowik is not the answer for Denver.
Hell, his kid is one of our special teams coaches, pretty sure we all know how well the special teams are doing.
The players are not going to buy into a system that never worked.
Rarely was a Bates defense good against the run, I have no idea why people thought he was a good coach.
If you want the players to play, get a fresh approach.
YEaaaaaahhhhh!!!!, that´s what the team need. With this deffensive roster, it was for many and succesfully results, but it wasn´t,,, the players never understood the playbook. When shanahan decided forget de new play book, and the old play book versus steelers, the things walk on. Thesame fact happens in moments, versus tennessee. And we know it, Bates came to fix the deffensive, an he couldn´t.
WE NEED A NEW HEAD COACH
TRADE TRADE JIMMY JOHNSON
Just all you Shanny haters see Next year will be a totally diffrent team. Like i said before. This is a young team. They tryed something diffrant this year and it didn’t work. So back to the drawing board. It takes sometimes three years to be a great team. When Dallas won there superbowls they were great then they sucked for years now the got the right peices look at them now. Look at the Patriots they sucked for long time, look at them. The point is it takes time. First they need to focus on the D I think we all know that. I do believe that shanny made some bad decision this year. But he has also made some great one’s for example drafting Brandon, young, Hall, dumervil, to name some. He also got Stokely from Indi And all those guys were perductive. Also the decision to play Cutler last year was great to because that help him out alot. So with this young group of guys there still learning. So for a coach its not easy just to throw these guys on the field and say its atomatic superbowl team. That why I say next year will be diffrant. But next year it does not work then maybe some coaching changes will be needed.
In the midst of all this, I thought I should bring up some thing………….. I’ve always wanted to coach the broncos.
Any chance of getting Mike Singletary as defensive co-ordinator?
I really hope we pick up someone who can use the talent we currently have on the team. The thing with Bates is that we had to shuffle new players in and out and I don’t think we ever got players that would fit well into his scheme.
The offense will definately improve, so I am looking forward to a better season next year!
i think they should get rid of javon and travis henry to reduce salary space maybe if their is a good free agent on the O line or d line man then make a trade with either javon or travis. Offense looked great besides not being able to score TDS and the Defense. we need some help and also need lynch to stay.
also, just an idea but maybe have the Broncos could switch to 3-4 because we got WAY better linebackers than LINEMEN.